@jacmoe - The real, overwhelming factor is going to be themes. I think over the next few years we’re going to see a huge rise in the number of bootstrap themes. Bootstrap themes will become as popular and as common as wordpress themes, if not more so because they’re cross platform. This is going to be bootstrap’s main advantage. Unless some more big companies get behind foundation, it will never gain the momentum and mindshare of bootstrap. There will never be an eco system around foundation. It’s a dead horse in the race at this point, even if it’s technically superior in some ways. Yii2.0 should use the “industry standard”, jQuery is the industry standard javascript lib, bootstrap is now the industry standard css framework, like it or not.
One consistent toolkit (Bootstrap) VS Many heterogeneous components (Foundation + 3rd party components).
Moreover, if the problem is the grid (which is pretty good in my opinion), it’s easier to use Bootstrap (which is very modular) with a different grid, than using Foundation + many 3rd party components to fill the Foundation lack of components.
It is indeed ridiculous to say that Twitter Bootstrap is the Industry Standard CSS Framework.
Not only ridiculous, but bollocks too.
It would be equivalent to saying that Git is the Industry Standard Versioning System, or that Ruby On Rails is the Industry Standard Web Development Platform.
Twitter Bootstrap is Okay, I guess…
What is industry standard is CSS2, CSS3, HTML5 - and so on.
If you want standard, why the heck is Twitter Bootstrap using LESS
When Sass/Compass is more widely used?
It’s the default CSS framework for RoR.
That is an equally ridiculous statement, this time made by me.
I am not saying that you are ridiculous however.
It’s just this whole debacle about Bootstrap from Twitter…
It’s getting really religious.
It’s like listening to Git fanatics or RoR zealots.
Jacmoe - what would you say the “industry standard” responsive CSS framework is then? Bootstrap has the greatest mindshare, that is all I’m talking about here. By your definition, jQuery would not be industry standard either.
Remember that until about a week ago I was arguing on your side, for foundation. It’s only when I actually used bootstrap that I saw the benefits and the future potential, have you used both enough that you can make a fair judgement?
I think the original reasons for preferring foundation (e.g. responsive grid etc) have been negated by the improvements in bootstrap 2.0
I prefer to make use of best practices instead of relying on an in-house bootstrap framework to ensure a consistent look across Twitter’s internal webapps.
Incorporating minimal and simplified elements like drop down menu, buttons and whatever - for convenience sake.
If you are satisfied with what Bootstrap provides, then by all means: use it.
You cannot yet talk about an industry standard when it comes to responsive web design - because the industry haven’t yet come up with such thing.
The whole thing is in it’s infancy - browse around for articles on the subject of RWD.
JQuery is a general purpose Javascript library. That’s different. It’s extremely versatile.
And it has been around long enough.
Can I name a CSS framework that I use?
Yes: Sass and Compass.
It rocks.
I can write semantic css which again means that I can drop in whatever css grid I want - even generate my own at runtime using Susy for Compass.
Jacmoe - I think you’re being a little strict with your definition of “industry standard”. How about this:
I’m building a web application based on Yii. I want to choose a responsive CSS framework, whatever my choice it should be well known and widely used so that it’s easy to find people who can work with my system. What is the pragmatic choice? I would say at this point the answer is Bootstrap, and that is why it should be the default for Yii2.0.
I would probably choose a responsive version of 960.gs - that is pretty much the ‘industry standard’ in css grid systems.
Choosing Twitter Bootstrap is your decision, and not a bad one - but it would IMO be very limiting if that was what Yii shipped with.
Then Blueprint is better because it’s flexible and doesn’t force anything on you: it provides a grid and some sensible default css ‘settings’.
Bootstrap is more like a small starter kit.
IMO.
<trolling>((Saying that Twitter Bootstrap is the ‘industry standard’ for css frameworks, is like saying that Trabant is the industry standard for cars… ))</trolling>
I don’t give a f**k what you decide to use, just make sure I can do my admin panel grids better than they are right now, I’m not forced with some CSS framework restrictions (I do not do template like websites at all - all my work is strictly non-standard stuff, so designs tend to end up non-standard so I have to adjust the layout). If Bootstrap can deal with my admin panel and the same time I can build a fully custom design without hacking it - be it.
Just remember - I do not use any CSS framework at the moment, so choose one that actually has good documentation
I think we could break this discussion down into two points:
We want Yii to become better (especially when it comes to visual designs)
we want Yii to grow (not the code but the community )
Point 1: I think we all agree that both Foundation and Bootstrap would make Yii a better and more hipster compliant framework
Point 2: While focusing on CSS standards and nice framework features we almost forgot about another argument: The easier it becomes for a newcomer to build a cool looking app with Yii (without prior knowledge) the more likely she/he will choose it and this will be beneficial for all of us. I love Yii and I want its community to grow. And design plays a very significant role in such a case. Make people fall in love with Yii by enabling them to create professional looking sites in no time. In my opinion this point would go to Bootstrap.